From: Bruce W McLain (bunicorn@ptd.net)
Date: Wed Jan 30 2002 - 16:36:30 MST
Sorry again Joe! I misread your post.
When you said "Sorry; self-conscious awareness requires sufficient
complexity to
allow for recursively; such complexity must breach the godelian threshold,"
I thought you were saying self-conscious awareness was beyond Goedel's proof
applying. Now that I'm reading it correctly, I whole-Heartedly agree, and I
have to admit that my first reaction was a knee-jerk reaction. I have heard
too many people express the belief that mind and thought is beyond being
subject to the proofs.
----- Original Message -----
From: <joedees@bellsouth.net>
To: <virus@lucifer.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 12:54 AM
Subject: Re: virus: Standing my ground (heaven: soul liberation or rapid
synaptic misfire?)
> On 29 Jan 2002 at 23:39, Walter Watts wrote:
>
> > joedees@bellsouth.net wrote:
> >
> > > <snip>
> > > Godel's Theorems hold ONLY in systems that are complex enough to
> > > admit of recursion, for only in self-referential systems is it
possible to
> > > construct statements that are ABOUT the relationship between the
> > > statements and the system in the system language, such as when
> > > statement B says that "B is not an axiom of axiomatic system A".
> > > <snip>
> >
> > and joedees@bellsouth.net also wrote:
> >
> >
> > > <snip>
> > > Mathematical recursion is a general attribute that has a particular
> > > instantiation in the complex system of neurons and their axonal and
> > > dendritic connections that is found in the human mind. It applies to
> > > ANY recursive systems, and since we are consciously self-aware
> > > (aware that we are aware), human minds are tokens of the type
> > > 'recursive system."
> >
> > and wlwatts@home.com STARTED to write:
> >
> >
> > something in agreement with the above excellent observations from Joe,
but
> > possibly stated in a different fashion in hopes of clarifying and
strengthening
> > the point for as many readers as possible.
> >
> > I reread Joe's points several times. My mind and my fingers found no
clever
> > substitutes.
> >
> > At this point I can only offer my heartfelt gratitude for the insight
and
> > experience of Joe Dees.
> >
> > He is one of several folk around here that I can collectively consider
> > "Super-Heroes" per their input and involvement in this hallowed forum.
> >
> > Thanks, Joe.
> >
> > Walter
> >
> No Prob, Dewde!
> >
> > --
> >
> > Walter Watts
> > Tulsa Network Solutions, Inc.
> >
> > "To err is human. To really screw things up requires a bare-naked
command line and
> > a wildcard operator."
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
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