From: joedees@bellsouth.net
Date: Mon Feb 04 2002 - 16:51:06 MST
On 2 Feb 2002 at 18:34, L' Ermit wrote:
> [athe nonrex] 1) the reason that islamic people are doing this is because
> they are in islamic countries. if they were christian contries, we would
> blame the christians.
>
> [Joe Dees] But in fact Christians are NOT doing this in the contemporary
> world; Muslims are.
>
> [Hermit] But in fact the US has been doing this in Iraq for a decade. The US
> is largely Christian and Iraq is largely if not entirely muslim. Does that
> mean that Christians are murdering Muslims? I would argue that athe nonrex
> is quite correct. Try to look at the assertions about religious war in
> Nigeria in "African" terms rather than through "American" eyes.
>
Iraq invaded their neighbor Kuwait, and the international community, led
by the US but including several Muslim countries, cooperated in their
expulsion from that land. After playing a shell game with their nuclear,
biological and chemical weapons programs for many years (and getting
caught at it periodically), Saddam Hussein expelled UN inspectors. Iraq
has engaged in genocide against its Shiite minority in the south and its
Kurdish minority in the North, including the use of chemical weapons
against them, necessitating the establishment of no-fly zones in order to
protect the peoples indigenous to these areas (preventing some
Muslims in that country from murdering others en masse).
Arrangements have long been made for Iraq to sell more than ten billion
(that's 10,000,000,000) dollars worth of their oil each year in order to
feed their people, with increases each year; these funds have been
diverted from their intended use and funnelled into mass-destruction
weapons programs, the Iraqi military (notably the Republican Guards),
and the rebuilding of approximately 50 castles that Saddam Hussein
has established for himself across the country, while his people starve.
During retired Prez George Bush (41)'s visit to Saudi Arabia, an Iraqi-
instigated and funded plot was uncovered to assassinate him while he
was there. Several Saudi nationals were executed as conspirators.
Our airstrikes in and near the no-fly zones are directed at anti-aircraft
battyeries and radar installations, that co-ordinate to paint the US and
British patrols with radar to ascertain their positions and then fire upon
them.
>
> [Hermit] Nigeria has 115 million people, living in an area that can support
> perhaps one third that number comfortably - when there is no drought.
> Perpetual war and poverty means that nothing is stored to get through the
> rough times - even though they are predictable.
>
> [Hermit] Nigeria is divided into at least 371 identifiable tribes
> [url]http://www.onlinenigeria.com/tribes/[/url], and these are spread out
> into 36 regional areas. However, four ethnic groups together account for
> over 60% of the country’s total population: the FULANI and HAUSA live mainly
> in the north; the IBO predominate in the southeast and the YORUBA in the
> southwest. These hate one another with an historical passion and if they
> didn't have religious differences, those denying the UTic power of tribalism
> would have to invent other reasons...
>
The Fulani and Hausa are mainly Muslim, the Ibo and Yoruba are
mainly Christian and animist. The Fulani and Hausa have been waging
a bloody faith-based genocide against the Ibo and Yoruba for some
time now.
>
> [Hermit] Do you remember the "other war" while Vietnam was happening? Or was
> America so occupied with Asia that they didn't learn about Africa. Try doing
> a search on Biafra. Then explain what religion had to do with that conflict.
>
It has been reported that 22 of 24 contemporary shooting conflicts in
the world involve one or more Muslim countries.
>
> [Hermit] The people of Nigeria have fought continuously with one another,
> with short breaks only when they were occupied by others. As with almost any
> fighting in Africa, the fundamental driver is tribal, not religious, not
> political, not even economic. It is only when looking at African warfare (or
> politics) through ignorant eyes, eyes that have been taught that tribalism
> is so non-PC that it should be ignored, that the fundamental tribal hatreds
> are fudged into religion, nationalism, politics, economics, soccer teams
> etc. Which is why people engaging in this level of self-delusion still find
> the wars of Africa "inexplicable" when the grounds change or it appears to
> benefit nobody (as is the case with most of Africa's wars).
>
> [Hermit] Meanwhile, the supposed "religious" and "political" motivations
> both "explain" and "lure" credulous adventurers to align with those with
> whom they sympathize and supply them with funding and weapons to aggravate
> the fight. Which means that these days the weapons are better so the wars
> kill more people. Yet if you took away the mortars and machine guns, as well
> as the supposed "religious" reasons for fighting, the wars would continue -
> with machetes and assegai as were used in Rwanda if necessary. I do not see
> this being resolved in any easy fashion although the Virian Vision posts
> suggested some medium and long term solutions. But a religious war? Don't be
> silly.
>
> Regards
>
> Hermit
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