From: Kalkor (kalkor@kalkor.com)
Date: Mon Feb 25 2002 - 15:21:08 MST
[Hermit]
La, la Mermaid, such emotionalism. You are quite devoid of meat to beat.. So
few facts. And the few “facts” presented are wrong. Cannibalism is very
common in animals. It is a good source of cheap protein, although it carries
rather nasty risks of infection (see BSD/CJS etc.).
Do you know why piglets need to have their teeth cut? If it is not done,
they bite their mothers nipples and then the other pigs will cannibalize
them - usually while alive. The pigs don't mind the smell of blood. They
like it, because they recognize what you apparently do not. That it is not
the “stench of death”, it is the smell of life. Carefully refined from
plants at great cost (it takes upwards of 7 Joules of plant energy to
produce 1 Joule of protein energy).
Next, chickens. Aside from doves, chickens are probably the most vicious
birds - and the most cannibalistic. Any poultry farmer will tell you that
most roosters will break any eggs that were not fertilized by him, or that
contain another rooster - or will kill any chicks unless kept carefully
separately. And all of the chickens that can get to the remains will eat the
contents of the eggs or the bodies of the chicks.
Most animals, don't even have to think about the implications of
cannibalism, they realize that meat is just meat; quite a sensible attitude
if you think about it. Visualize eating your mother. Shades of Monty Python.
[/Hermit]
[Kalkor]
I raised mice for several years as a child, played around with an extensive
gene pool that I acquired from many shops around the region, had a
twice-weekly breeding schedule, sold the babies down the river for pets and
reptile food, somewhere between 8 and 20 per week. At any moment I usually
had 8 females pregnant and 8 with a litter(two bred per week, gestation 4
weeks, birth to weaning 4 weeks), plus a "harem" of 10-15 males, and dozens
of females that were not of age or fallow or it wasn't their time according
to my genetics charts.
MICE ARE CANNIBALS
The female gets put in the male's cage to breed, and removed as soon as she
gets preggers. Why? If you put the male in the female's cage she WILL kill
and eat him. If you leave a male in with a female who has babies, he will
eat the babies, and she will fight with him and usually prevail.
In the first couple weeks of their lives, the babies will be eaten by the
mother if she is startled in any way. I'm not certain why she does this, but
I suspect it's "I can always have another litter, and I don't want to waste
the energy I have put into this one by allowing something else to eat them,
and I sense danger, and I can either protect myself or my babies. Look out
for numero uno!"
[/Kalkor]
[Hermit]
PS, the reason that at least some meat is essential to a healthy diet is
that there are essential acids (and minerals) that we cannot absorb except
in the presence of animal protein. Taking supplements is generally speaking
a futile exercise as we tend to shit/piss most of it straight out again - as
we have spent millenia developing a digestive system capable of extracting
what we need from plants and animal tissue. When we take it in the form of a
supplement, our body doesn’t recognize it – unless in the presence of
material which would normally supply us with those particular substances
anyway. The end result is that long-term “vegan vegetarians” tend to live
shorter lives (actuarial studies), become scatterbrained as they age (known
factor in geriatric medicine) and often develop very bad tempers (personal
and shared observation). These consequences can be staved off, but
apparently not evaded, by taking supplements at the same time as eating
appropriate high protein plant material (beans and nuts). Of course, the
last is not a particularly healthy dietary regime… and the fact that humans
are relatively long lived, but with great variance in life expectancy,
disguises how very unhealthy a vegetarian lifestyle really is.
[/Hermit]
[Kalkor]
I agree 150% Hermit. And what about the yummy omega-3 and other fatty acids
we can only find in cold-water fish? Pretty damn good source of
monounsaturated fats, and tasty to boot!
I also reject the notion someone brought up that our ancestors only ate meat
rarely as a treat. Put yourself in their shoes: protein has a very high
calorie/mass ratio, and fat has an even higher one. It tastes wonderful and
is necessary to build and maintain muscle structure. And plentiful! If you
were a guy with a sling or bow or some sort of projectile weapon, how long
would it take you to bring down a squirrel? Or a monkey? It's a lot more fun
than digging tubers. What about insects? Are they "meat" too? Shellfish,
crustaceans, fish. Eggs stolen from nests, poisonous snakes killed to
demonstrate machismo, protect loved ones, and provide a variety. The list
goes on and on, no matter where in the world they lived.
As far as plucking a tomato and having a new one grow back, my parents used
to raise New Zealand rabbits when I was a child. Talk about growing back
after you pluck them, crunch all you want, they'll be happy to fuck nonstop
and provide you with plenty more babies. Boy oh boy, young tender bunnies
are very tasty. My job was to take the little fuzzy critters one at a time,
calm and soothe them in the grass, maybe feed them a dandelion leaf... as
soon as they stopped shivering and perked their ears up, I grabbed the ears
and bashed them on the back of the noggin with a stick. Not too hard, you
want them still alive for the bleeding. Not too soft, you want them
unconcious and unable to screech like only a wounded rabbit can do. My
father would hang them up over a garbage can by their back feet and slit
their throats, so their heart could pump out all the blood. We'd do a couple
or three litters of 8 before lunch every other saturday.
GODDAMN NASTY AND TRAUMATIC way to grow up!!!! But hey, at least I have a
very firm understanding of where I fit into the food web(the TOP), and I
have absolutely no squeamishness about killing any creature if it means I
get a high calorie, muscle building meal to sustain me. Now tell me
non-human carnivores and omnivores don't feel the same...
[/Kalkor]
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Wed Sep 25 2002 - 13:28:43 MDT