From: Steele, Kirk A (SteeleKA@nafm.misawa.af.mil)
Date: Tue Mar 12 2002 - 23:16:21 MST
Et Tu Brute!
-----Original Message-----
From: Hermit [mailto:hidden@lucifer.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 2:48 PM
To: virus@lucifer.com
Subject: virus: Advice to Newbies (and Old-timers) - Responding to
Idiocy
Please pay attention to our websites, the
[url=http://virus.lucifer.com]Church of Virus[/url] (particularly the sins
and virtues) and our brand new forums
[url]http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs[/url] (particularly the FAQs). Consider
joining our IRC sessions (also brand new) in #virus, either via the chat
button on our website (accessible after registering) or by using an IRC
client connected to irc.lucifer.com:6667. While new, even if you don\'t get
an immediate reply, hang around until somebody starts talking. Virians are
generally helpful and will try to answer your questions. (Apropos of
something, today we were up to 8 Virians discussing a wide range of topics).
For the rest, a little advice. Don\'t judge the Church of Virus only by the
noisy ones (me included). We are a Church (a community) as well as
individuals. As in any community, some people are quicker on the uptake than
others, and some are \"nicer\" than others. First impressions are important,
but long term effects even more so. As someone who has been here a while, I
find this community not only a good place to be a member of, but exciting
and challenging too.
The topic suggested that I would talk about responding to idiocy - and that
is what the rest of this post is about.
There are many kinds of idiocy in the world. Most of them are harmless
except to those that that are infested by it.
One is to be aggressive [i]all[/i] the time, and in so doing miss the point
that people have to make the transition from BEism (belief-emoticism) to
rationality themselves, and that all we as a church can do is to attempt to
facilitate the process and provide those on that journey with support.
Another is to assume that responding to idiocy other than with reason will
accomplish anything useful except for getting yourself ignored. It won\'t.
Virians do not generally admire people who rise to troll bait. Particularly
when the person doing so has a self-proclaimed lack of grasp of fundamental
issues and modes of civilized behavior.
Some might argue that we as a church should act on this, to prevent harm.
Except on very rare occasions, I suggest that this is to an accept a
fundamental fallacy. When somebody persistently says things you disagree
with, there are many possible actions, most of them unhelpful. Let us look
at a few good ones.
One approach, whether your disagreement with somebody is about facts or
interpretation, is to oppose them, using well-supported arguments. In this
instance, if it becomes apparent that discussion is pointless, i.e. if it is
evident that they are unable or unwilling to reason, simply rebut their
posts, providing arguments (a series of supported propositions designed to
force a conclusion) and references to support your position, and avoid
getting into DISNOT situations (Did so. Did not. Did so too.) or long
rambling diatribes where either you or your opponent is throwing everything
imaginable into the argument, including the kitchen sink. Where you are not
sure if you are competent to argue effectively, you might care either to try
your hand at it anyway - for a few posts at least - or simply put your
misgivings as a question to the forum. In any case, should some of the
really competent thinkers here (and they are not small in number) disagree
with the postings, they are lik!
ely to act to protect the forum from being inundated with unopposed
nonsense. This fortunately does not happen frequently, but be warned that it
sometimes becomes a tad messy here while clean-ups are in progress. Do not,
however messy it becomes, think of stepping in, unless you are sure you are
able to defend your positions. It is not fun to have the attention of many
and have nothing worthwhile to say.
Two, if your disagreement is about style, you can read such posts, analyzing
them for facts and checking the facts as you would for any other post.
Ignore tone and respond only to facts. This is where I think that those
arguing with Kirk Steele are currently going horribly wrong. If somebody\'s
facts or conclusions seem wrong to you, discuss that, but confine your
opinion to the facts and their interpretation, not to their style (which, no
matter how much you might hate it, is valid. That is their choice. Just as
much as your style is your choice.). Such an approach will make it much
easier to understand why some people succeed in annoying you - and possibly
cure yourself. Remember that offence cannot be given, only recieved. Attempt
to analyze what people are saying and why, not how they are saying it. What
people\'s motivations are, will become clear if you can discipline yourself
to adhere to this policy. Most Virians are intending to be helpful, not
harmful, no matter ho!
w it might feel when on the microscope stage (Refer
[url=http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=31;action=display;threadid
=11531]FAQ: Gator Fate, Joe Dees, 2000-01-27[/url]).
Three, you can ignore people. Either by setting your mail client to bounce
their messages, or by imposing self discipline. The first approach will do
less damage to your teeth, but has the huge disadvantage that the biggest
fool or nastiest person imaginable may have something worthwhile to say. And
unfortunately, a mail client \"ignore\" results in it throwing out anything
worthwhile that may be in contributed. The latter approach takes more will
power, but involves reading posts and simply skipping those that do not
contain facts, you are willing to discuss.
When on the receiving end of criticism, it can be quite difficult to manage
it and stay cheerful. If you have grounds to consider your argument valid,
try to support it. Unless prepared to engage in a flame war (and the
probable damage to your reputation), avoid responding to or about the person
making the comments unless that is relevant to the argument on hand. Address
the facts and only the facts.
When you perceive somebody as \"attacking you\" consider first whether you
are indeed the \"target\" and secondly whether or not the attack has merit.
Be careful to separate attacks on beliefs, always valid, no matter how
strongly you hold them, from attacks on people. If the perceived attack
still appears directed at you (as opposed to beliefs held by you), the best
response possible is to try to ignore them. If you don\'t feel you can or
should, attempt to be respond as civilly as possible and attempt to speak to
issues raised as opposed to the person of the attacker. Almost everyone here
will recognize personal comment, no matter how inflammatory the provocation
as not contributing to the environment or the arguments.
Finally remember that email (and BBS\'s) no matter how liberally equipped
with smileys, still miss intonation. It is very easy to miss humor or mild
sarcasm for a vicious personal attack. And some people, even in the CoV,
don\'t forgive easily, sometimes waiting for months for an opportunity to
respond to a slight, no matter how imaginary it may have been.
So grow a thick skin, ignore idiots, lamers and the overaggressive, learn
much and have fun.
Regards
Hermit
---- This message was posted by Hermit to the Virus 2002 board on Church of Virus BBS. <http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=16;action=display;threadid=>
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