Re: virus: Fred Reed on Religion...

From: Walter Watts (wlwatts@cox.net)
Date: Mon Sep 01 2003 - 17:53:40 MDT

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    Thanks for this, Jonathan. Very nice piece.

    Walter

    Jonathan Davis wrote:

    > Believing, Disbelieving, And Suspecting - Disordered Thoughts On
    > Religion (August 25, 2003 )
    >
    > http://www.fredoneverything.net/Faith.shtml
    >
    > We live in a wantonly irreligious age-at least at the level of public
    > discourse. In America the courts, the schools, and the government seek
    > to cleanse the country of religion. More accurately, they seek to
    > cleanse it of Christianity. We are told, never directly but by
    > relentless implication, that religious faith is something one in decency
    > ought to do behind closed doors-an embarrassment, worse than public
    > bowling though not quite as bad as having a venereal disease.
    >
    > Which is odd.
    >
    > I do not offer myself as one intimate with the gods, and on grounds of
    > reason would be hard pressed to choose between the views of Hindus and
    > those of Buddhists. I note however that over millennia people of
    > extraordinary intellect and thoughtfulness have taken religion
    > seriously. A quite remarkable arrogance is needed feel oneself mentally
    > superior to Augustine, Aquinas, Isaac Newton, and C.S. Lewis. I'm not up
    > to it.
    >
    > Of course arrogance comes in forms both personal and temporal. People
    > tend to regard their own time as wiser and more knowing than all
    > preceding times, and the people of earlier ages as quaint and vaguely
    > primitive. Thus many who do not know how a television works will feel
    > superior to Newton, because he didn't know how a television works. (Here
    > is a fascinating concept: Arrogance by proximity to a television.)
    >
    > It will be said that we have learned much since the time of Newton, and
    > that this knowledge renders us wiser on matters spiritual. We do have
    > better plastics. Yet still we die, and have no idea what it means. We do
    > not know where we came from, and no amount of pious mummery about Big
    > Bangs and black holes changes that at all. We do not know why we are
    > here. We have intimations of what we should do, but no assurance. These
    > are the questions that religion addresses and that science pretends do
    > not exist. For all our transistors we know no more about these matters
    > than did Heraclitus, and think about them less.
    >
    > Many today assuredly do know of the questions, and do think about them.
    > One merely doesn't bring them up at a cocktail party, as they are held
    > to be disreputable.
    >
    > Yet I often meet a, to me, curious sort of fellow who simply cannot
    > comprehend what religion might be about. He is puzzled as distinct from
    > contemptuous or haughty. He genuinely sees no different between
    > religious faith and believing that the earth is flat. He is like a
    > congenitally deaf man watching a symphony orchestra: With all the good
    > will in the world he doesn't see the profit in all that sawing with bows
    > and blowing into things.
    >
    > This fellow is very different from the common atheist, who is bitter,
    > proud of his advanced thinking, and inclined toward a (somewhat
    > adolescent) hostility to a world that isn't up to his standard. This is
    > tiresome and predictable, but doesn't offend me. Less forgivably, he
    > often wants to run on about logical positivism. (I'm reminded of
    > Orwell's comment about "the sort of atheist who doesn't so much
    > disbelieve in God as personally dislike him." Quote approximate.)
    >
    > Critics of religion say, correctly, that horrible crimes are committed
    > in the name of religion. So are they in the name of communism,
    > anti-communism, Manifest Destiny, Zionism, nationalism, and national
    > security. Horrible crimes are what people do. They are not the heart of
    > the thing.
    >
    > The following seems to me to be true regarding religion and the
    > sciences: Either one believes that there is an afterlife, or one
    > believes that there is not an afterlife, or one isn't sure-which means
    > that one believes that there may be an afterlife. If there is an
    > afterlife, then there is an aspect of existence about which we know
    > nothing and which may, or may not, influence this world. In this case
    > the sciences, while interesting and useful, are merely a partial
    > explanation of things. Thus to believe in the absolute explanatory power
    > of the sciences one must be an atheist-to exclude competition. Note that
    > atheists as much as the faithful believe what they cannot establish.
    >
    > Here is the chief defect of scientists (I mean those who take the
    > sciences as an ideology rather than as a discipline): an unwillingness
    > to admit that there is anything outside their realm. But there is. You
    > cannot squeeze consciousness, beauty, affection, or Good and Evil from
    > physics any more than you can derive momentum from the postulates of
    > geometry: No mass, no momentum. A moral scientist is thus a
    > contradiction in terms. (Logically speaking: in practice they
    > compartmentalize and are perfectly good people.)
    >
    > Thus we have the spectacle of the scientist who is horrified by the
    > latest hatchet murder but can give no scientific reason why. A murder
    > after all is merely the dislocation of certain physical masses (the
    > victim's head, for example) followed by elaborate chemical reactions.
    > Horror cannot be derived from physics. It comes from somewhere else.
    >
    > Similarly, those who believe in religions often do not really quite
    > believe. Interesting to me is the extent to which those who think
    > themselves Christians have subordinated God to physics. For example, I
    > have often read some timid theologian saying that manna was actually a
    > sticky secretion deriving from certain insects, and that the crossing of
    > the Red Sea was really done in a shallow place when the wind blew the
    > water out.
    >
    > Perhaps so; I wasn't there. Yet these arguments amount to saying that
    > God is all-powerful, provided that he behaves consistently with physical
    > principles and the prevailing weather. The sciences take precedence.
    >
    > Now, people who seek (and therefore find) an overarching explanation of
    > everything always avoid looking at the logical warts and lacunae in
    > their systems. This is equally true of Christians, liberals,
    > conservatives, Marxists, evolutionists, and believers in the universal
    > explanatory power of the sciences. Any ideology can probably be
    > described as a systematic way of misunderstanding the world.
    >
    > That being said, at worst the religions of the earth are gropings toward
    > something people feel but cannot put a finger on, toward something more
    > at the heart of life than the hoped-for raise, trendy restaurants, and
    > the next and grander automobile. And few things are as stultifying and
    > superficial as the man not so much agnostic (this I can understand) as
    > simply inattentive, whose life is focused on getting into a better
    > country club. Good questions are better than bad answers. And the
    > sciences, though not intended to be, have become the opiate of the
    > masses.
    >
    > http://www.fredoneverything.net/Faith.shtml
    >
    > ---------------
    >
    > Regards
    >
    > Limbic
    > ---
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    --
    Walter Watts
    Tulsa Network Solutions, Inc.
    "Reminding you to help control the human population. Have your sexual partner spayed
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    ---
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