From: Mermaid (hidden@lucifer.com)
Date: Mon Oct 06 2003 - 09:26:23 MDT
[Blunderov quoted]The State is defined by Clastres as "a separate organ of power", that is, something that separates social power from society itself. [...]"Primitive" warfare is a different
matter from "classical" or "modern" warfare. Drawing on Marshall
Sahlin's work, which showed that most primitive societies exist in a
state of affluence - where a few hours' work a day will suffice to
provide all necessities, where economic surplus and profit are
meaningless - Clastres argues that primitive war has little to do with
competition for resources. The major resource apparently fought for
among the Yanomami is women and children, but given that peaceful
exchanges can also serve to ensure such genetic distribution, Clastres
argues that something else is essential to primitive war: social
autonomy and the self-determination of the social group....
[Mermaid]That is an interesting book review. Thanks for posting it. It is close enough to what I attempted to explain about 'ordered societies' as well as the need to see war and violence with a different perspective when it comes to comparing primitive and non primitive societies.
[Blunderov]Also worth bearing in mind, perhaps, is the possibility that
death may have not held the same meaning that it does now. Deep in the
ooze of ancient religion is the notion of 'the afterlife'. It is
possible to imagine that the afterlife was a very real place to ancient
peoples; to them, perhaps, a plain fact that everyman could observe for
himself and perhaps nothing like the 'theoretical' possibility which is
haggled over in modern times.
[Mermaid]The Aztecs, one of the most violent primitive societies, honoured the captured enemy soldier by sacrificing him to the gods. When primitive societies engage in practices like human sacrifice or cannibilism, it may be distasteful to us. But from the point of view of these people, it is a form of nourishment, tradition and belief...and not intended as violence. I am NOT trying to defend these obviously violent acts, but there is such a thing as perspective.
Slaughtering of animals for nourishment can be a very violent and for some, a sinful act..especially from the perspective of non meat eating societies. As another example...if the non-meat eating Brahmin of India declares that the meat eating white man of the western world is a violent, uncivilised, culinary illiterate...a savage who enjoys dead animals, one would have to question the wisdom of the Brahmin's conclusion with respect to his ignorance of all matters outside of his cultural and social borders.
[Blunderov]I wonder whether it could be argued from this that the origins of crime are contained in the State itself. That at its Hollywood heart of
darkness lies a glamorous resistance to the State, a sexy partisan
hiding in the mountains?
[Mermaid]can you elaborate on that? It sounds beautiful enough for me to borrow it for random conversation..but it would be better for me if I knew precisely what it means.
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