From: Hermit (hidden@lucifer.com)
Date: Thu Apr 11 2002 - 04:36:44 MDT
[quote author=Jonathan Davis link=board=51;threadid=25330;start=0#108708 date=1018516150]
[Hermit] Fortunately we have the entire sequence of images in our News section - See towards the end of [url]http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=2;action=display;threadid=11541;start=0[/url]. This also has the text from the BBC Online News report. I will be referring to the text as well as the images. Please note that although I have not used Jonathan\'s name to identify the passages cited by him, as he is presumably quoting the signator, Carl Nordlund.
<snip>
[Carl Nordlund] What this document shows is horrible and is totally beyond all reasonable behaviour. If the pictures doesn\'t lie, we must indeed spread these images to all we know, especially media.
[Hermit] Agreed. While I suggest maintaining the skepticism reflected in the BBC report, I think that the combination of words and pictures casts doubt on the value of the analysis provided by Carl Nordlund.
[Carl Nordlund] However, after doing a simple photographic analysis of the pictures, I do believe that these pictures are fake, as the first 3 pictures differs quite a bit from the last 2 pictures. I have made two enlargements of these pictures in this email - I have enclosed the pictures as 2 jpg-files in this email - and my comments are as follows:
[Carl Nordlund] * The pictures have different colouring shadings; when looking at the colour of the street on the two sets of pictures, the first 3 are slightly more greenish.
[Hermit] Depending on how the original pictures were shot, and whether shot on the same spool of film, this is explicable without needing to query the authenticity of the images.
[Hermit] In the case of a conventional camera (which is what I suspect given that the pictures were able to withstand significant enlargement without reflecting scan-lines) the anti-halide layer on film frequently reacts to sunlight entering the camera and producing a greenish cast. Given the changing angle of light (reflecting the time sequence) this explanation is the most likely, if everything else stayed equal.
[Hermit] Secondly, the changing angle off reflective surfaces changes the quality of the light, as the blue cast of the sky can radically change perceived colors - particularly - but not necessarily - where the camera is fitted with a polarizing filter (very frequent in the Middle East as very high levels of sky light are present, giving photographs from cameras without polarizing filters a very washed out appearance).
[Hermit] Thirdly, if different films were used (particularly) if different types (e.g. daylight/artificial light) or if one of them had been abused (excessive heat before use - easy in the Middle East) then this too would explain the color difference.
[Hermit] Carl Nordlund \"notices\" a hue difference. What is not explained is why this difference implies that the veracity of these pictures should be doubted.
[Carl Nordlund] * The last 2 pictures are taken from a somewhat different angle than the 3 first ones (look at the angle of the side of the left car).
[Hermit] The first and last pictures are taken from substantially the same perspective. As I look at the subject material, this initial perspective would have occluded the details of the handling of Mahmud Salah, the apparently executed alleged bomber. Thus I find the change in position easy to understand, and am unable to comprehend why the author of this critique felt that this indicated a veracity problem.
[Carl Nordlund] * The wheel of the military jeep/vehicle is probably not the same in the first 3 and the last 2 pictures. First, the back wheel differs a lot in looks (this can however be an effect of different photo angles but the effect wouldn\'t affect the light reflection of the metal that much). Secondly, the proportional distance between the left car and the back wheel (the latter which is only slightly visible in picture 4) is incorrect; either it\'s a different car altogether, standing where the military jeep stood, or the vehicle has moved a bit. I have drawn a yellow line to mark the distance between the back wheel of the jeep and the front of the left car. Picture 1-3 and 4-5 seems to be taken from approximately the same distance from the scene so the yellow line shouldn\'t differ that much as it does.
[Hermit] While Carl Nordlund undoubtedly attempted to approach the subject scientifically, I would suggest that this is a similar but different vehicle, stopped in a different location, and that this makes excellent sense as Mahmud Salah was allegedly accompanied by an accomplice who was removed from the scene by Israeli officials, quite probably in a patrol vehicle, and that once the situation had been called in, senior officers, COINOP specialists and detectives were dispatched to take over the scene from the patrol branch. As there was no claim made that the vehicle was the same vehicle, I suggest that Carl Nordlund\'s analysis is irrelevant, whether or not it was the same vehicle could make no conceivable difference to the case.
[Carl Nordlund] * The people pointing the gun at the stripped man in picture 4 has different clothings than the people in picture 1-3.
[Hermit] As observed above, this is to be expected.
[Carl Nordlund] * When looking at the properties of the document (In Word, use menu File, select Properties), the author is apparently located in Denmark (or the Word program is registered to this person). I have emailed this person asking about the document but I haven\'t got a reply yet.
[Hermit] I don\'t know what document Carl Nordlund is referring to, the images and text were apparently provided to the BBC (my source) by the AFP news agency, which also said that they \"had received the testimonies of more than 10 eyewitnesses, who said the man was shot half-an-hour after his arrest when he was completely subdued.\" This surely makes the question of the packaging in which he received the images irrelevant, unless he is claiming that the packaging he received is a copy of that from which the AFB produced their report. Thus this point is irrelevant to an analysis of the material. Any valid investigation would require analysis of the source material (and that would include the film used for taking the photographs).
[Carl Nordlund] If my hypothesis is correct, i.e. that the latter 2 pictures were reconstructed after the israeli military had left, I wouldn\'t be surprised. Words and pictures are, as we all know, more powerful than the sword and it is quite natural that documents such as these appear in situations of war and occupation where one side is totally superior to the other when it comes to weaponry and military might.
[Hermit] An hypothesis requires evidence. On the one side we have a reputable and credentialed media agency making claims to having ten(!) eyewitnesses supported by photographs. On the other we have the clearly irrelevant statements made by Carl Nordlund above, together with a last assertion that is clearly fallacious.
[Hermit] Careful examination of image 4 shows that the road is clear of blood and gore, while image 5 shows that the remnants of the victim\'s brains, and a significant amount of other tissue and fluids are present on the roadway. Unless Carl Nordlund is asserting that these remnants were fakes, or that the supposed \"scene reconstructionists\" cleaned the roadway as part of the mopping up operations, it is not possible that the \"latter 2 pictures were reconstructed\".
[Hermit] Given this, and Ockhams little razor, supported somewhat by a working knowledge of Israeli procedures and attitudes, I am sufficiently convinced that Carl Nordlund\'s supposedly critical analysis is bunk. The pictures might well tell a different story or have been doctored in some way, AFP may have been lying, or their witnesses may have been. We cannot determine that, only a court can. What the sequence and abundance of witnesses suggests to me is a prima facia case of murder by the Israeli authorities.
[Carl Nordlund] My analysis is purely technical and my conclusions are only based on my very little knowledge in imagery and information warfare. I have no opinion of the current situation except that I hope that Israeli
occupation will end, that Palestine will be declared as a sovereign state and that organisational and non-organisational suicide bombings aimed toward Israel will cease as soon as possible, with peace and security being the result for both parties.
[Hermit] Again, this sounds like a good idea.
<snip>
Thanks for the forward Jonathan,
Regards
Hermit
---- This message was posted by Hermit to the Virus 2002 board on Church of Virus BBS. <http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=51;action=display;threadid=25330>
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