From: Jonathan Davis (jonathan.davis@lineone.net)
Date: Fri Jun 20 2003 - 05:02:57 MDT
Dear Hermit,
I see no benefit in we two immigrants arguing over immigration. The source
you provided to support your argument was flawed. I simply pointed that out.
I think the argument over the economic benefits of immigration misses the
point. Some immigrants, like me, provide massive amounts of tax revenue for
our host countries. Other immigrants - the majority - are a net drain on the
host country. It looks like we balance out when you compare tax revenues
versus benefits paid out, but the picture changes when other factors are
included like use (and abuse) of the free National Health System, Schooling,
Housing, Crime, the black economy and socio-cultural cohesion.
The immigration debate is not just about economics and some foolishly
pretend this is the only factor upon which to measure the matter. The are
hugely important issues which need to be considered when assessing pros and
cons. In this country these include the massive problem of immigrant crime,
the complete lack of an integration and naturalisation policy or system, the
cost of multiculturalism and political correctness, the effects of majority
deracination, the accommodation of political Islam, the rise of reactionary
majority ethnic nationalists and so on.
In the UK we have rampaging immigrant crime wave. Whole criminal industries
are now controlled by ethnic immigrant mafia. Health services are collapsing
under the burden of treating hordes of immigrants - most AIDS and TB beds in
the UK are occupied by immigrants who have understandably come to get
treatment. There is a crisis in education as schools cannot cope with the
irruption of non-English speaking children. The housing situation in the
South East is critical thanks to the hundreds of thousands of immigrants
cramming in every year - most of whom refuse to move elsewhere in the
country. I could go on at length.
On the positive side, we have enormously industrious immigrants working all
over this country doing essential work - but mostly illegally. As I think
Kharin already mentioned, from building labourers through to coffee
waitresses, cleaners, you name it - immigrants. They are mostly Eastern
European, African, Filipino and South American. They are widely acknowledged
to be hard working, good people. There is no doubt in my mind that these
millions of people are essential to the economic well being of the country
(our indolent permanent underclass won't lift a finger) and I would like to
see them legitimised through a sane immigration policy and a properly
ordered Asylum System. I would like to see control: The right sort of people
let in for the right reasons, whilst the scroungers, gangsters and other
criminals are kept out for the right reasons.
It is this mixture of good and bad that is confusing matters. We desperately
need good immigrants, whilst we also desperately need to damage control the
effects of not so good immigrants.
This issue is contentious, emotive and off topic for this list, so this will
be my last contribution on the matter.
Kind regards
Jonathan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-virus@lucifer.com [mailto:owner-virus@lucifer.com] On Behalf Of
Hermit
Sent: 19 June 2003 18:38
To: virus@lucifer.com
[Jonathan] The data is from 1976
[Hermit] True
[Jonathan] and is consequently grossly outdated. Looks like the myth being
touted here is the homo economicus pro-immigration argument is sound
[Hermit] Interesting. Outdated? Outdated = myth? Support your assertions.
Are you really saying that having increased the INS staffing from 8,100 (in
1975) to 35,400 (in 2002) [Source
http://www.usdoj.gov/jmd/budgetsummary/btd/1975_2002/btd01ins.pdf ] and
budget from $200 million to $ 2.5 billion in constant 1983 Dollars (against
the CPI) (actually from $ 183 million to $ 5,5 billion) that the problem
with costs associated with "undocumented immigrants" has exaccerbated from
where they contributed to the economy to where they are a nett cost to the
economy? I think that you should cite some data. Please try not to
cherry-pick your sources.
[Jonathan] and that in the 21st century uncontrolled mass immigration is
generally a good thing.
[Hermit] Is this a straw man from you? Please try to show where this
argument was made in my original reply.
Hermit
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