From: Hermit (hidden@lucifer.com)
Date: Tue Jul 29 2003 - 11:37:06 MDT
One answer might be, "because he lies", but more seriously, because the ongoing sniping and nastiness is at a level where if I
didn't have a sizeable investment here, I'd have done what far too many others have done and just left.
Consider that attempts to discuss current affairs resulted in having to close access to a board on which I and others spent several
hundreds of hours writing arguments and attempting to present a perspective tending to counteract the incessent stream of propaganda
delivered by the US media. These were simply "drowned out", not by pieces written to counter them, but by a plethora of plagiarised
articles simply copy pasted at a rate often exceeding forty per day by one user. I haven't noticed you commenting on this. Is there
something wrong with this picture?
Discussion of the ethics of what seems to me to be illegal activities on the part of the Israeli and American governments on the
main list have lead to many here being called "racists", "fucktards", "unAmerican", "antiSemite" and "pro terrorism". Currently the
national news services are not reporting that reputable organizations are accusing us and our allies of horrendous war crimes. I
think that is something which should be discussed here. Unfortunately, a brief glimpse at the nineteen copy paste posts made
yesterday after I had posted two drafts on the "Test Area" (http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=9), currently being abused
by Joe Dees, will show you what the result would be if this were raised here. So I have not. And I suggest that the CoV is poorer
for that. I haven't noticed you objecting to that. Is there something wrong with this picture?
Those attempting to discuss P2Ps ethics and practicality have been accused by Bill Roh of "stealing", told they don't know what they
are talking about (although as demonstrated, the boot is on the other fool) and told that they should be classified as felons. Does
this encourage discussion or the submission of thought out argument? Had we not allowed Bill Roh, who let's not forget attempted to
"out me" after committing not to, use the CoV as a platform to attempt to belittle me, I would not have replied as I did. And you
wouldn't have written your letter. But we did, and I did and you did. In that order. Is there something wrong with this picture?
On another thread, attempting to discuss the possibility that neither jobs nor money may be very significant in a post-singularity
world, Joe Dees used the opportunity to go off on an utterly unfounded 1950s McCartyite anti-socialist/communist rant (and getting
his facts wrong) while ignoring sound arguments and indeed the very issues raised. A rant to which I wrote a researched reply - but
didn't share it - for fear of exaccerbating the situation or getting into another interminable deluge which I don't have the time or
the inclination to address. How many other Virians are doing the same. Or just leaving? Of course, rants take no time at all - and
calling people names is even easier. So our willingness to allow Joe Dees to behave as does suppresses serious contributions, chases
off those we might like to see as fellow members of our church and encourages the only kind of people who might enjoy this kind of
behaviour to join in using our forums as a pissing target. I don't recall you objecting to this. Is there something wrong with this
picture?
Indeed, I don't recall seeing your objections to any of the above. Given the history of last two years it seems that some on the
list (principally Joe Dees and Bill Roh) believe that we should not bar people using name calling, flooding and topic spamming to
suppress discussion. And a huge majority of Virians have remained silent - even when other long time members (David Lucifer, Dr
Sebby, Jake, Zloduska, me and many more) have asked for support to take action. So far, no action has been taken and (principally)
two users, Joe Dees and Bill Roh, have resulted in preventing some 1600 others from holding discussions on these topics - and many
other Virians, having seen what happens to posters who raise the ire of the "Moral Majority" don't post their ideas, comments or
submissions. Indeed it has become the case that people keep quiet even when they object or are revolted by things said here - for
fear of stirring a shitstorm aimed at themselves. Is there something wrong with this picture?
I think that all the above makes a statement. I think that it says that the CoV has changed at a very fundamental level, and not, I
think, for the better. The question for those who are revolted by this (which includes me), is what do you want to do about this? I
know that I am not going to keep quiet. I think that I have sufficient credibility and have demonstrated sufficient goodwill to
respond in kind in the hope that this causes change even though I am not sure whether it will. To highlight the situation as I see
it, in the hope of eventual change , I am now using (abusing) the list as the list itself has indicated it prefers to be used - or
abused, when it seems needed. While we allow this behavior - and we allow it through our silence as well as by defending the
perpetuators of such behaviour, I will reciprocate in the fashion that the list has indicated it prefers. In otherwords, when I call
Joe Dees a "fuckwit" and would call Bill Roh a "lying cunt" (only cunts are nice), I am reciprocating because the CoV is no longer a
place where a person can discuss an issue without being called names or flooded. And I think there is something very much wrong with
this picture.
Hermit
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