From: Jei (jei@cc.hut.fi)
Date: Thu May 06 2004 - 13:38:27 MDT
On Thu, 6 May 2004, Joe Dees wrote:
> Juuko:
>
> My sources are global. Their perspectives trend from conservative to
> liberal to libertarian. And if you think that simply being an American
> disqualifies a person from having a valid perspective, than that says
> more about you than it does Americans. Existentialism lesson: NO sources
> are objective, since they are authored by subjects, not objects.
Then we agree. All sources and articles are inherently subjective,
even though some strive to be objective.
> However, intersubjective consensus may be reached to various degrees of
> confidence. I am 48 and thus will not be drafted, but I am a military
> vet (visions of Jei crouching in fear and slowly backing away whilst
> making the sign of the cross and reaching for the garlic).
My my, whatever for? Hehehe.
Good for you, I hope. Let's hope you grow up some day.
> Americans did NOT do what Hitler did. What terminally relativistic
> moral equivocation! To even assert such a thing is to reveal yourself
> to be suffering severe reality disconnection difficulties, probably
> brought on by a severe infestation of the Bush = Hitler meme. Believe
> you me - from what we know of European history, Adolph was not invading
> all those countries in order to topple despots and nurture
> constitutional democracies, then leave.
Oh, is that why the Americans did it now?
If so, what happened to the WMD reason?
Why the Torture camps and 25,000 prisoners?
Oh, sorry. You must mean American Democracy, where these
things like 2 million 33 000 prisoners is considered normal.
I keep mixing this concept with the European Democracy
where not such amounts of people need to be locked up
and tortured.
> Show me the US concentration
> camps and gas ovens; then we'll talk. The overwhelming majority of
> Iraqis killed by US forces have been armed non-Iraqi militants or
> members and former members of Saddam's army, the army that massacred
> hundreds of thousands of Shi'ites and Kurds at Saddam's bidding (we're
> still discovering mass graves). All told, Saddam has been responsible
> for two million Iraqi and foreign deaths, ranking him even with Pol Pot
> and behind only Hitler, Stalin and Mao in the mass murderer sweepstakes.
Let's see your sources on that last figure, thank you. Otherwise you're
talking bullshit, or referring to the said starvation victims of UN
sanctions.
I merely call things as I see them, and I see Bush acting and doing
things very much the same way Hitler did in his time. - For all purposes
he can claim to be Jesus Christ and you Americans can believe him all
you like. His deeds are what matter, not his words. And they ring and
sound very much like those of Hitler.
And there's plenty of more wars for "Democracy" to come, if Bush's Team
has his way, and as the famous PNAC states their goals to be.
> And OF COURSE the US has troops there; they were required inorder to
> topple Saddam, and they are required to provide security for the genesis
> of a constitutional democracy in Iraq that the totalitarian despots in
> neighboring Iran and Syria dearly desire to strangle at birth. The US
> will stay until the Iraqis can civilly and non-chaotically handle their
> own affairs; then they'll most gladly relinquish power and draw down the
> troops - just like in Germany and Japan.
US troops are still in Germany and Japan. When will they be leaving?
I haven't seen US giving up it's bases much anywhere willingly, the
last place I heard they were leaving was Saudiarabia, and that's probably
because that's the last stated target of the PNAC team for "democracy".
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