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Blunderov
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RE: virus: Depleted uranium
« on: 2004-05-18 07:49:19 »
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[Blunderov] A staggering interview.
Best Regards

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article6201.htm

Atrocities in Iraq: 'I killed innocent people for our government'
<excerpt>
Q: You mention machine guns. What can you tell me about cluster bombs, or
depleted uranium?
A: Depleted uranium. I know what it does. It's basically like leaving
plutonium rods around. I'm 32 years old. I have 80 percent of my lung
capacity. I ache all the time. I don't feel like a healthy 32-year-old.

Q: Were you in the vicinity of of depleted uranium?

A: Oh, yeah. It's everywhere. DU is everywhere on the battlefield. If you
hit a tank, there's dust.

Q: Did you breath any dust?

A: Yeah.

Q: And if DU is affecting you or our troops, it's impacting Iraqi civilians.

A: Oh, yeah. They got a big wasteland problem.

Q: Do Marines have any precautions about dealing with DU?

A: Not that I know of. Well, if a tank gets hit, crews are detained for a
little while to make sure there are no signs or symptoms. American tanks
have depleted uranium on the sides, and the projectiles have DU in them. If
an enemy vehicle gets hit, the area gets contaminated. Dead rounds are in
the ground. The civilian populace is just now starting to learn about it.
Hell, I didn't even know about DU until two years ago. You know how I found
out about it? I read an article in Rolling Stone magazine. I just started
inquiring about it, and I said "Holy s---!"</excerpt>

[Blunderov] Also
http://www.unobserver.com/layout5.php?id=1462&blz=1
<excerpt>
Of all the violations of the laws of war by the highest officials of our
country, none is more alarming or portentous than the widespread,
premeditated use of depleted uranium in Iraq. Eleven miles north of the
Kuwaiti border on the "Highway of Death," disabled tanks, armored personnel
carriers, gutted public vehicles - the mangled metals of Desert Storm - are
resting in the desert, radiating nuclear energy. American soldiers who lived
for three months in the toxic wasteland now suffer from fatigue, joint and
muscle pain, respiratory ailments - a host of maladies often known as the
Gulf War Syndrome</excerpt>...
<excerpt>
After the Gulf War in 1991, Iraqi hospitals recorded a surge in cancer and
birth defects. Hospital statistics from Basra show that in 1988 there were
11 cancer cases per 100,000 people. By 2001, after schools, homes, and
entire neighborhoods were leveled from the air, the number increased to 116
per 100,000. Breast and lung cancer and leukemia showed up in all areas
contaminated by depleted uranium. Dr. Jawad al-Ali, cancer specialist at the
Basra Training Hospital, noted that, "The only factor that has changed here
since the 1991 war is radiation." Thirteen members of his staff, all present
when the hospital area was bombed, are now cancer patients. </excerpt>...
<excerpt>
The growing outcry against the use of depleted uranium is not a matter of
minor legal technicalities. The laws of war prohibit the use of weapons that
have deadly and inhumane effects beyond the field of battle. Nor can weapons
be legally deployed in war when they are known to remain active, or cause
harm after the war concludes. The use of depleted uranium is a crime whose
horrific consequences have yet to run their course

Years ago in the midst of France's brutal war in Algeria, the philosopher
Jean Paul Sartre admonished the French intelligentsia:

"It is not right, my fellow-countrymen, you who know very well all the
crimes committed in our name. It's not at all right that you do not breathe
a word about them to anyone, not even to your own soul, for fear of having
to stand in judgment of yourself. I am willing to believe that at the
beginning you did not realize what was happening; later, you doubted whether
such things could be true; but now you know, and still you hold your
tongues."<excerpt>...

http://www.hermes-press.com/depluran.htm
The Depleted Uranium
Cover-up
By Michelle Mairesse
<excerpt>
How radioactive is depleted uranium? Bertell says, "The difference in
radioactivity between natural and depleted uranium is that given equal
quantities, depleted uranium has about half the radioactivity of the natural
mixture of uranium isotopes. However, because of the concentration of the
uranium in the depleted uranium waste, depleted uranium is much more
radioactive than uranium in its natural state." </excerpt>


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Re: virus: Depleted uranium
« Reply #1 on: 2004-05-18 08:43:17 »
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For the record the word “depleted” in Depleted Uranium means that the majority of the radioactive portion has been removed.
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First, read Bruce Sterling's "Distraction", and then read http://electionmethods.org.
Joe Dees
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RE: virus: Depleted uranium
« Reply #2 on: 2004-05-18 16:36:50 »
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Blunderov
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RE: virus: Depleted uranium
« Reply #3 on: 2004-05-18 18:52:03 »
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Joe Dees
Sent: 18 May 2004 10:37 PM

Also check:

http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=5;action=display;threadid=28198

----
[Blunderov] Very interesting articles. Opinion appears divided over the
toxicity of DU. Opinion appears equally divided as to what the effects
of this toxicity, or the lack thereof, might be. 

My guess is that being exposed to radioactive materials increases your
chances of getting cancer. My personal assessment of what other people may
presume to determine as an acceptable level of risk to Blunderov is = 0. (Or
less.) I bet lots of other people feel that way too. 

The WHO report stated that DU is a 'mildly' radioactive metal and I was a
little struck by the incongruity of this word in a scientific report. It
reminds one of the advertising industry -'So mild you can wash your hair
with it everyday; blond isn't blond unless its YellowKake blonde!'

'Methinks she doth protest too much' I found myself thinking, perhaps
unworthily.

Just say no, kids.*

Best Regards

*I am, perhaps heretically by some lights, not anti-nuclear power; - I think
it's an excellent idea. But I am a lot less convinced that deliberately
spreading radioactive materials around the ecosystem is a good idea.

On the other hand I have this really great idea. Let's use beef offal to
feed other cows so that they get nice and fat really quickly. It can't lose
- we'll make fortune I tell you.


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RE: virus: Depleted uranium
« Reply #4 on: 2004-05-19 14:36:01 »
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Blunderov
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RE: virus: Depleted uranium
« Reply #5 on: 2004-05-19 15:30:02 »
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Joe Dees
Sent: 19 May 2004 08:36 PM

<snip>
Our nation cannot afford to follow either John Kerry or any Generation X
versions of the anti-war veteran. Jimmy Massey cannot escape the
implications of what he is declaring to all the world by laying blame with
the President based on clichés about war for oil and lies about weapons of
mass destruction. And we who understand the importance of success cannot
afford to keep our heads down.
</snip>

[Blunderov] So which bit of what Massey has to say is false? Or should I
understand this article to mean that even if what he has to say is true, it
should be ignored in the interests of the greater good?

What good?

Best Regards


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RE: virus: Depleted uranium
« Reply #6 on: 2004-05-19 15:39:28 »
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Blunderov
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RE: virus: Depleted uranium
« Reply #7 on: 2004-05-19 16:13:59 »
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Joe Dees
Sent: 19 May 2004 09:39 PM

The author, citing evidence, depicts Massey as an emotionally unstable
opportunist and his interviewer as an elaborating anti-Bush partison both of
which call into serious question the original article's credibility.

----
[Blunderov] Shooting the messenger. Which bit isn't true?
Best Regards


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Blunderov
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RE: virus: Depleted uranium
« Reply #8 on: 2004-05-19 16:30:04 »
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[Blunderov] This must be the Rolling Stone Article that Massey mentioned.
Best Regards
http://feedthefish.org/blog/materials/johnson.html
<excerpt>
Iraqi civilians were also exposed to low-level radiation from DU -- and
preliminary evidence indicates that the consequences have been devastating.
Iraqi doctors, many of them specialists trained at eminent Western
institutions, such as Sloan-Kettering in New York or Great Ormond Street
Hospital in London, report twelve-fold increases in Iraqi cancer rates since
the first Gulf War, as well as sharp rises in birth defects in southern
Iraq, where much 0f the fighting took place. According to Iraqi doctors,
some infants there emerged from the womb with one eye, or no brain, or
without limbs. They add that in the dozen years since the conflict, rates of
childhood cancer linked to radiation exposure -- especially leukemia and
lymphoma -- have jumped four-fold.

As for U.S. troops, the Pentagon says that only 900 of the 700,000 soldiers
deployed during the war were exposed to DU, when they were fired upon or
went into destroyed tanks to rescue others. But scientists and military
whistle-blowers who have studied the campaign say the number of soldiers
exposed to DU dust and debris is closer to 300,000. Soon after the fighting
stopped, soldiers who worked on supply lines at the rear were loaded on
buses and taken to the battlefields so they could be photographed with their
comrades on burned-out Iraqi tanks. No one warned them to avoid the sticky
black soot coating the vehicles, which was radioactive.

Within months of the war's end, thousands of Gulf War veterans began
suffering from odd, nameless maladies, including hair loss, bleeding gums,
memory loss, joint pain, incontinence. and disabling fatigue. In 1992, Sen.
Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) asked the General Accounting Office, an independent
research arm of Congress, to study American tanks that had been hit by DU
rounds during the war. GAO investigators learned that most soldiers had
never been informed by their superiors about the hazards of DU. The GAO's
findings were summarized in the title of its report issued a year later:
"Army Not Adequately Prepared to Deal with Depleted Uranium Contamination".
</excerpt>




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Blunderov
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RE: virus: Depleted uranium
« Reply #9 on: 2004-05-19 16:48:45 »
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[Blunderov] http://feedthefish.org/blog/materials/johnson.html  the Rolling
Stone Article that I mentioned before is an absolute must-read. I was struck
in particular by the following snippets;
<Snip>
In Geneva, the Human Rights Tribunal declared DU projectiles weapons of mass
destruction. The United Nations has made its position on depleted uranium
abundantly clear: Use of such weapons is illegal, because they continue to
act after the war ends, they unduly damage the environment, and they are
inhumane. Next month, the first international conference on eliminating such
weapons will convene in Germany; a country that outlaws the use of DU
munitions.

"Depleted uranium weapons are radioactive weapons, even if they are not by
definition nuclear weapons," says Victor Sidel, co-president of
International Physicians for the Prevention of Nuclear War and an expert in
weapons of mass destruction. "And because they are radioactive, their use is
contrary to international law."...

...There's a reason that DU shells are so profitable: The raw material is
all-but free. Eager to dispose of 1 billion pounds of depleted uranium
accumulating in federal installations since the Manhattan Project,
Washington sells the waste to munitions makers for pennies on the dollar.

But while defense contractors profit handsomely, their neighbors are exposed
to radioactive waste. Starmet Corp. -- among the Army's largest supplier's
of DU weapons -- dumped 400,000 pounds of uranium and heavy metals into an
unlined holding pond in Concord, Massachusetts, polluting soil and
groundwater. Faced with a massive cleanup, Starmet filed for bankruptcy last
year -- leaving taxpayers with cleanup costs estimated at $50 million.
Cleanup at the Twin Cities Army Ammunitions Plant in suburban Minneapolis,
littered with DU shells manufactured by Alliant, is expected to cost $235
million.

"We have a government heavily invested in using DU weapons," says Judy
Scotnicki, a community leader in Concord. "As a result. our community is
stuck with hundreds of thousands of pounds of radioactive waste."
</Snip>
Best Regards






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RE: virus: Depleted uranium
« Reply #10 on: 2004-05-19 19:12:35 »
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Blunderov
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RE: virus: Depleted uranium
« Reply #11 on: 2004-05-20 01:44:29 »
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-----Original Message-----
From: owner-virus@lucifer.com [mailto:owner-virus@lucifer.com] On Behalf Of
Joe Dees
Sent: 20 May 2004 01:13 AM
To: virus@lucifer.com
Subject: RE: virus: Depleted uranium


Joe Dees
Sent: 19 May 2004 09:39 PM

The author, citing evidence, depicts Massey as an emotionally unstable
opportunist and his interviewer as an elaborating anti-Bush partisan both of
which call into serious question the original article's credibility.

----
[Blunderov] Shooting the messenger. Which bit isn't true?
Best Regards

No, showing the messenger to be a liar; a likely liar about the DU episodes
(which were never a concern of Massey's in his previous interviews, but were
previous concerns of Paul Rockwell), and a certain liar about the candy and
gunfire scenario, clearly lifted off a Muslim hate site.  These lies being
exposed, and the biases of both the interviewer and the interviewee being
clear, the rest of the contentions then come under serious question.
But, of course, none of this is clear to you.  Since their biases are
equivalent to yours, they are invisible to you, as also, apparently, was the
exposing of lies which you dearly desire to be prejudice-confirming truths.

----
[Blunderov] When you have proof that these are lies I might be interested in
continuing this conversation.

I remains only to add that Bush et al are clearly monstrous war criminals. I
hope they get their just desserts. 


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RE: virus: Depleted uranium
« Reply #12 on: 2004-05-20 18:00:17 »
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Blunderov
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RE: virus: Depleted uranium
« Reply #13 on: 2004-05-20 19:12:55 »
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Joe Dees
Sent: 21 May 2004 12:00 AM

The monstrous war criminals include Al Qaeda, the Taliban, and Saddam
Hussein.  Each of them has killed more Muslims than the US has in Afgnaistan
and Iraq combined.  It is anything but monstrous war criminality to
prosecute a war against such monstrous war criminals.  It is, in fact,
laudable and noble.

----
[Blunderov]
Waging an unjust war of aggression, the use of illegal munitions and the
torture, murder and rape of civilians are war crimes. Comparing these crimes
to the iniquities of others changes this not one whit. It is an irrelevant
hypothesis.

This is why the war is lost. There were no WMD. And now there is no moral
high ground left from which to fight it either.

'The Sea of Faith
Was once, too, at the full, and round earth's shore
Lay like the folds of a bright girdle furled.
But now I only hear
Its melancholy, long, withdrawing roar,
Retreating, to the breath
Of the night wind, down the vast edges drear
And naked shingles of the world.

Ah, love, let us be true
To one another! for the world, which seems
To lie before us like a land of dreams,
So various, so beautiful, so new,
Hath really neither joy, nor love, nor light,
Nor certitude, nor peace, nor help for pain;
And we are here as on a darkling plain
Swept with confused alarms of struggle and flight,
Where ignorant armies clash by night.'

('Dover Beach' Matthew Arnold)

Best Regards


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RE: virus: Depleted uranium
« Reply #14 on: 2004-05-20 20:35:52 »
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