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   Author  Topic: Graves  (Read 2641 times)
rhinoceros
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Graves
« on: 2004-05-25 11:40:59 »
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This story from.... "Al-Associated Press" somehow slipped our attention.


Iraq Desert Bombing Video Shows Carnage
Associated Press, May 21, 2004
http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/I/IRAQ_WEDDING_ATTACK

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Fragments of musical instruments, tufts of women's hair, and a large blood stain are among the scenes in Associated Press Television News film of a destroyed house that survivors say U.S. planes bombed during a wedding party.

It is the first known footage from the site of Wednesday's attack, which killed up to 45 people, mostly women and children from the Bou Fahad tribe in Mogr el-Deeb, a desert village on the Syrian border.

The U.S. military has said the target was a suspected safehouse for foreign fighters from Syria and denied Friday that children were killed in the airstrikes.

Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt told reporters in Baghdad that U.S. troops who reported back from the operation "told us they did not shoot women and children."

"There were a number of woman, a handful of women, I think the number was four to six, caught up in the engagement. They may have died from some of the fire that came from the aircraft," Kimmitt said.

But an Associated Press reporter in the Ramadi area, at least 275 miles east of Mogr el-Deeb, was able to identify at least 10 of the bodies as those of children.

At the Bou Fahad cemetery outside Ramadi, where the tribe is based, each of the 28 fresh graves contain one to three corpses, mostly of mothers and their young children.

Relatives said they include those of 2-year-old Kholood and 1-year-old Anoud, daughters of Amal Rikad, who was killed; of 2-year-old Raad and 1-year-old Ra'ed — whose headless body was found near his house — sons of Fatima Madhi, who was killed; of Saad, 10, Faisal, 7, Anoud, 6, Fasila, 5, Kholood, 4, and Inad, 3 — children of Mohammed and Morifa Rikad, who were killed.

There also are photo images of dead children, but it was not possible to determine if those victims were already accounted for by relatives.

In Washington, Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Gen. Richard Myers told Congress that "we feel at this point very confident that this was a legitimate target, probably foreign fighters" who may have ties to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, a Jordanian wanted for allegedly organizing attacks on U.S. troops in Iraq (news - web sites) on behalf of al-Qaida.

<snip>

"What we saw in those APTN videos were substantially inconsistent with the reports we received from the unit that conducted the operation," Kimmitt said. "We're now trying to figure out why there's an inconsistency.
<snip>


http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20040521.wedd0521/BNStory/International/

<snip>
The first bomb struck the main tent at about 2:45 a.m., the survivors said. Among those who died was Hussein al-Ali, a prominent wedding singer from Baghdad. The second bomb struck the stone house, killing everyone inside.

Survivors said shells rained down for hours.

Two helicopters landed and about 40 soldiers searched the house where the women had stayed and a second, vacant house. Soon after, the two houses were blown up — although witnesses offered differing accounts of how. Some said the houses were attacked by helicopters. Others said the Americans detonated them with explosives.

Some of the men tried to approach the Americans but were driven back by gunshots, the survivors said. The troops took money and jewellery the dead women had brought for the party, survivors said.
« Last Edit: 2004-05-25 11:50:54 by rhinoceros » Report to moderator   Logged
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RE: virus: Graves
« Reply #1 on: 2004-05-25 12:48:36 »
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If you read Belmont Club, you would not have to try and figure out the
contradictory reports from wire services like AP and al-Reuters the like.

This is worth reading as a lovely example of unbiased and dispassionate
analysis. Look and learn Jazeera...

The Wedding Party 1 - http://tinyurl.com/2vdj2
The Wedding Party 2 - http://tinyurl.com/yrkjw
The Wedding Party 3 - http://tinyurl.com/297yg

Regards

Jonathan bin Limbic


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-virus@lucifer.com [mailto:owner-virus@lucifer.com] On Behalf Of
rhinoceros
Sent: 25 May 2004 16:41
To: virus@lucifer.com
Subject: virus: Graves


This story from.... "Al-Associated Press" somehow slipped our attention.


Iraq Desert Bombing Video Shows Carnage
Associated Press, May 21, 2004
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=12&u=/ap/20040521/ap_o
n_re_mi_ea/iraq_wedding_attack


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Mermaid
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Re:Graves
« Reply #2 on: 2004-05-26 11:25:17 »
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i dont get it...are you saying 'belmont club'..(seems like a blog) is challenging the way serious journalism(that wire services have to adhere to..including sticking to what we commanly know as FACTS) and that we have to take belmontclub blog seriously?
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Re:Graves
« Reply #3 on: 2004-05-26 11:29:39 »
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[[ author reputation (1.72) beneath threshold (3)... display message ]]

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JD
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RE: virus: Re:Graves
« Reply #4 on: 2004-05-26 11:49:19 »
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I can see you did not check the links :-)  He compares and analyses several
wire versions. Have a look.

Regards

Jonathan

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Mermaid
Sent: 26 May 2004 16:25
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Subject: virus: Re:Graves


i dont get it...are you saying 'belmont club'..(seems like a blog) is
challenging the way serious journalism(that wire services have to adhere
to..including sticking to what we commanly know as FACTS) and that we have
to take belmontclub blog seriously?

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Cassidy McGurk
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Re: virus: Re:Graves
« Reply #5 on: 2004-05-26 15:01:47 »
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On Wed, 2004-05-26 at 16:29, Joe Dees wrote:
> The Belmont Club proceeds with their analysis using the data from several different press accounts of the selfsame event, chronologically arranged (as to the times at which the news services posted them).  Surely the multiply verified facts from several different new services, cross-referenced for correlations, must be better than simply swallowing purported facts from one single source alone, ayy?

depends what the sources are, if they're all Joe "propaganda" Dees
approved sources, then they're probably not worth shit.

>
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> This message was posted by Joe Dees to the Virus 2004 board on Church of Virus BBS.
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I must remember to change this sig regularly
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RE: virus: Re:Graves
« Reply #6 on: 2004-05-26 16:43:48 »
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This is a sour and uncalled for personal attack, Sean. Belmont Club's
sources include The Guardian, AP, Reuters, NY Times, BBC News and The
Washington Post.

Are you telling us all you assess arguments and information based solely on
their provenance?

Joe, bye the way, is simply arguing against the veritable tide of propaganda
posted here by opponents of Joe's views. All sides have recently calmed
down, but to single him out us both unfair and inaccurate.

Regards

Jonathan

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-virus@lucifer.com [mailto:owner-virus@lucifer.com] On Behalf Of
Sean Kenny
Sent: 26 May 2004 20:02
To: virus@lucifer.com
Subject: Re: virus: Re:Graves

On Wed, 2004-05-26 at 16:29, Joe Dees wrote:

[Joe Dees]

The Belmont Club proceeds with their analysis using the data from several
different press accounts of the selfsame event, chronologically arranged (as
to the times at which the news services posted them).  Surely the multiply
verified facts from several different new services, cross-referenced for
correlations, must be better than simply swallowing purported facts from one
single source alone, ayy?

[Sean Kenny]

depends what the sources are, if they're all Joe "propaganda" Dees approved
sources, then they're probably not worth shit.

>
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Re: virus: Re:Graves
« Reply #7 on: 2004-05-26 17:13:08 »
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: they're all Joe "propaganda" Dees
: approved sources, then they're
: probably not worth shit.

That's harsh.  He doesn't conciously choose to be a conservative propagandist, he just doesn't know any better.
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First, read Bruce Sterling's "Distraction", and then read http://electionmethods.org.
Joe Dees
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Re:Graves
« Reply #8 on: 2004-05-26 17:19:06 »
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[[ author reputation (1.72) beneath threshold (3)... display message ]]

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Blunderov
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"We think in generalities, we live in details"

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RE: virus: Re:Graves
« Reply #9 on: 2004-05-26 18:22:01 »
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Joe Dees
Sent: 26 May 2004 11:19 PM

I'll put the credibility of my many center-mainstream sources up against the
credibility of Irvken's few fringe-extreme sources any and every day.

Irvken has proven to be a classic object lesson in the principle that, for
brainwashed-by-hatred memebots, every fact that is cognitively dissonant to
or incommensurate with their zombic mental lockstep dogma is memetically
filtered as 'propaganda' so it can be dismissed or ignored.  This is as true
of
those who are memetically hooked into Bush-hatred as it is of Al Qaedan
sympathizers.

----
[Blunderov] Don't you think it interesting that the two examples you
selected (from myriad possibilities) happen to coincide, lockstep almost,
with the memeplex widely known as 'neo-con'?

Perhaps this memeplex is based on sweet reason, and not brainwashing at all,
which is what differentiates it from all other less worthy memeplexes?

Best Regards. 


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Joe Dees
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Re:Graves
« Reply #10 on: 2004-05-26 19:55:16 »
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[[ author reputation (1.72) beneath threshold (3)... display message ]]

« Last Edit: 2004-05-26 20:15:21 by Joe Dees » Report to moderator   Logged
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18680476 18680476    dr_sebby drsebby
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RE: virus: Re:Graves
« Reply #11 on: 2004-05-26 21:00:44 »
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....keep in mind Joe, that your center-big-name sources are the very ones
likely to be told what and what not to say.  the CEO or owner of
clearchannel once bought the texas rangers from bush...then bush appoints
powell jr. to direct the FCC....legislation follows allowing a virtual
monopolization of media outlets....clearchannel now owns 1500 american radio
stations and approx. 70% of all music venues.  if someone makes them
unhappy, how hard would it be to just shut them down?  are you really
believing that small individuals can fight against such a juggernaut of
media control?  look at what is happening to howard stern....he's even
named several smaller radio personalities that came out against bush, and
then 'poof!' theyre either fired, or sent to a very small town office job.

...media IS the ultimate weapon of control...do you REALLY think bush and
his good ol' boys wouldnt rush to control it???  with everything theyve
done, this wouldnt be anything surprising or difficult.  why do you think
you NEVER hear about the berg beheading being potentially faked on CNN, or
ANY main-stream news source?  not a one!!



DrSebby.
"Courage...and shuffle the cards".





----Original Message Follows----
From: "Blunderov" <squooker@mweb.co.za>
Reply-To: virus@lucifer.com
To: <virus@lucifer.com>
Subject: RE: virus: Re:Graves
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 00:22:01 +0200

Joe Dees
Sent: 26 May 2004 11:19 PM

I'll put the credibility of my many center-mainstream sources up against the
credibility of Irvken's few fringe-extreme sources any and every day.

Irvken has proven to be a classic object lesson in the principle that, for
brainwashed-by-hatred memebots, every fact that is cognitively dissonant to
or incommensurate with their zombic mental lockstep dogma is memetically
filtered as 'propaganda' so it can be dismissed or ignored.  This is as true
of
those who are memetically hooked into Bush-hatred as it is of Al Qaedan
sympathizers.

----
[Blunderov] Don't you think it interesting that the two examples you
selected (from myriad possibilities) happen to coincide, lockstep almost,
with the memeplex widely known as 'neo-con'?

Perhaps this memeplex is based on sweet reason, and not brainwashing at all,
which is what differentiates it from all other less worthy memeplexes?

Best Regards.


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"courage and shuffle the cards..."
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Re:Graves
« Reply #12 on: 2004-05-26 21:33:06 »
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[[ author reputation (1.72) beneath threshold (3)... display message ]]

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18680476 18680476    dr_sebby drsebby
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RE: virus: Re:Graves
« Reply #13 on: 2004-05-27 02:49:53 »
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....clearchannel owns them.  therefore bush controls them to a certain
extent.  if it were a free-for-all and they were liberals, they would bring
up all the disturbing realities of psycho-bush policies.


btw:  did you know that Condaleeza Rice has an oil tanker named after
her?

(i bet she'd be a wildcat in bed...i wouldnt say no to her:)



DrSebby.
"Courage...and shuffle the cards".





----Original Message Follows----
From: "Joe Dees" <hidden@lucifer.com>
Reply-To: virus@lucifer.com
To: virus@lucifer.com
Subject: virus: Re:Graves
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 19:33:06 -0600

The bias seems to be in the other direction, Sebby; the Nick Berg beheading
story passed pretty quickly (fuck the conspiracy 'faking' take on it; you
don't hear about the beheading story much AT ALL!), and the video was never
shown on any news channel.  The Abu Ghraib story, however, continues to be
regularly recycled, with the same pictures presented over and over and over
again.  Just do a Google search of "nick berg" "iraq" "beheading"and another
one of "Abu Ghraib" "prison guard" "torture" (or substitute "abuse") and see
how many hits you get for each.

The reporters who present the news to us are, according to the polls,
predominantly liberal (and thus anti-Bush and pro-Kerry), and they tend to
make such news coverage decisions swayed by conscious or unconscious bias.

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Re:Graves
« Reply #14 on: 2004-05-27 08:30:44 »
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as far as i know, only AP(associated press) and Reuters can be considered 'wire services'
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