virus: Memetic engineers (xposted from memetics list)

From: Keith Henson (hkhenson@rogers.com)
Date: Sat Dec 13 2003 - 21:37:09 MST

  • Next message: Erik Aronesty: "Re: virus: Memetic engineers (xposted from memetics list)"

    Ted Dace makes the comment that memetics is not making progress as a study.

    That's both true and not true. If you look into anthropology, sociology,
    ecology and psychology department listings memetics gets covered in a lot
    of upper division university courses.

    Ted's right though that memetic engineering is not taught, or rather it
    *is* taught as an empirical subject with poor or no scientific base in
    courses such as public relations and advertising.

    This state of affairs is not unprecedented. Animal and plant breeding was
    a subject in agriculture schools for at least a hundred years before the
    genetic basis of breeding was understood. It was 4-5 decades after Watson
    and Crick before plant and animal breeding programs became "genetic
    engineering."

    Now the practitioners are able to use the scientific knowledge about DNA
    and a mess of tools developed for science to splice in the genes they
    want. Even at that, the majority of animal and plant breeding was done
    before people understood what they were doing all the way down to base pairs.

    By analogy, most of what is known about influencing people (via memes)
    comes from pre memetics days. I think a strong case can be made that any
    powerful leader(ship) has the same kind of gut feel about what they are
    doing that a breeder did about what *he* was doing a hundred years ago.

    The whole URL at http://www.snopes.com/quotes/goering.htm is worth
    reading. Here is the last part. It provides an interesting historical
    example of a "pre memetic" meme breeder.
    *********************
    The quote offered above was part of a conversation Gilbert held with a
    dejected Hermann Goering in his cell on the evening of 18 April 1946, as
    the trials were halted for a three-day Easter recess:"

    snip

    Later in the conversation, Gilbert recorded Goering's observations that the
    common people can always be manipulated into supporting and fighting wars
    by their political leaders:

    We got around to the subject of war again and I said that, contrary to his
    attitude, I did not think that the common people are very thankful for
    leaders who bring them war and destruction.

    "Why, of course, the *people* don't want war," Goering shrugged. "Why would
    some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that
    he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally,
    the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in
    America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after
    all, it is the *leaders* of the country who determine the policy and it is
    always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy
    or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship."

    "There is one difference," I pointed out. "In a democracy the people have
    some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the
    United States only Congress can declare wars."

    "Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can
    always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have
    to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for
    lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same
    way in any country."
    ******************

    I want to correct Goering observations in two respects. First, leaders and
    population alike are responding to preconditions to wars, primarily a
    substantial period of looming or actual decline in per capita
    income. Human genes were selected for well over a million years for
    analogies of this condition to induce warfare between neighboring tribes
    (via increased circulation of xenophobic memes). From the gene's viewpoint
    the common outcomes of wars between small tribes are better than starvation
    for winners *and* losers.

    Second, a population without looming privation is almost impossible to get
    to support a war, *unless* they have been attacked. The leadership of the
    US, particularly FDR, wanted the country to enter the war against Germany
    for years but did not have the support for it until Pearl Harbor.

    This too comes directly out of obvious evolutionary psychology/gene
    selection models. It might be noted in analogy to more recent events that
    the US didn't put maximum effort into Japan first, but went after Japan's
    ally Germany. (I.e., once you have an attacked people supporting a war,
    minimal manipulation can get their support to fight anyone.)

    Both of these EP based mechanisms on who starts wars and who fights back
    should be subject to verification in the historical record.

    Keith Henson

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