From: Jonathan Davis (jonathan.davis@lineone.net)
Date: Fri May 07 2004 - 04:01:47 MDT
Yes yes. I agree dear Kalkor, this is would be a blatant fallacy but for one
thing - I am not excusing the abuses at all, I am putting them in
perspective.
Bad --> Worse --> Worst
People have variously describe these abuses as abhorrent, horrific, utterly
disgusting etc. These hysterical reactions and hyperbolic descriptions do
not help. Yes, the abuse is bad, but it is nothing in the wider context of
war crimes and abuses. Using the wording of condemnation it would appear
that making prisoners pile up naked or being laughed at by female soldiers
is somehow equivalent
Pundits say that these photos have cause massive damage and the Arab world
now see the brutal core at the heart of western society. I dispute this.
What they see is the entire Western world in uproar at the behaviour of a
few soldiers doing things that are commonplace in any Arab police station or
prison.
Just because it is bad by our standards does not mean it is the same as our
enemies bad. They are in a different league and that is why criticism from
their ranks is unwelcome and hypocritical.
So, whilst I approve and am proud of our military and social reaction to
these photos and allegations, I am similarly completely dismissive of the
hypocritical denunciations from emanating from the Arab street. I am
reminding everyone that whilst what happened is bad, it is comparatively
minor. Whilst the US Army is right to stamp out this sort of activity within
its ranks, it is way beyond reproach from the Islamist enemy and the Arab
Street that supports that enemy.
Regards
Jonathan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-virus@lucifer.com [mailto:owner-virus@lucifer.com] On Behalf Of
Blunderov
Sent: 06 May 2004 23:23
To: virus@lucifer.com
Subject: RE: virus: War & Peace / Rethinking Iraq
Jonathan Davis
Sent: 06 May 2004 09:04 PM
Have anything on Islamist methods of torture? I thought you might have some
of those video clips of people being set alight, having their arms pulled
off my jeeps, their testicles cut off or throats cut?
Given that the US army dished out less violence to those Iraqis than was
typically dished out to army recruits (before hazing was banned), I think
they got off lightly.
Using words like "Torture" and "Abhorrent" is a bit strong. What words do we
have left for things like Daniel Perle being sliced open on tape? Are people
seriously suggesting there is some equivalence between this ultra-rare
conduct of rogue soldiers and what is routine in the Islamic world (torture
and murder of prisoners)?
Oh ye innocents.
[Blunderov] My dear friend Limbic I must protest! This is a blatant tu
quoque and I know you know better.
What on earth have the enemies' alleged practices got to do with anything?
Torture Lite is still torture. It is still abhorrent. There is no such thing
as a 'little bit abhorrent'.
Surely?
Best Regards
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