Re: virus: How to disinfect a host infected by a religious auto-toxic meme

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Topic: Re: virus: How to disinfect a host infected by a religious auto-toxic meme (Read 2057 times)

Rafael Anschau
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virus: How to disinfect a host infected by a religious auto-toxic meme
« on: 2003-02-10 09:43:06 »

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Mermaid
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Re: virus: How to disinfect a host infected by a religious auto-toxic meme
« Reply #1 on: 2003-02-10 08:58:45 »

[Rafael.A]I came with this short algorithm to disinfect hosts infected by
religious auto-toxic memes:

1) Show empathy with their weakness and hard life.

(CUT)

[Mermaid]weakness and hard life? Is that why you think people become
religious? Showing empathy to 'break defence' isnt really empathy. It is a
strategy. A sneaky tactic. Have you actually *used* this on anyone? Yea.
Lets try another one...

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Rafael Anschau
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Re: virus: How to disinfect a host infected by a religious auto-toxic meme
« Reply #2 on: 2003-02-10 16:26:06 »

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Mermaid
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Re: virus: How to disinfect a host infected by a religious auto-toxic meme
« Reply #3 on: 2003-02-10 19:02:23 »

[Rafael]People become susceptible to meme infection when their
meme-imunological system weakens.This is, when they become weak. The
solution is not to kill the evil virus, but to strengthen people's
meme-imunological system. It's a technique. You may call it a sneaky
tactic, but then you also have to call your personal trainer motivational
skills a sneaky tactic, your doctor cheering you up a sneaky tactic and
whoever puts you up a sneaky tactic. (Even a surgeon give you anesthesia so
you won't feel pain a sneaky tactic).

[Mermaid]One approaches a personal trainer/doctor/surgeon and submits
willingly to their administrations. (Well, I WILL!..at least if I had a
personal trainer, that is..) This is entirely different from trying to
approach a theist/believer or just any person carrying auto toxic memes.

[Mermaid]Waiting for someone's weak moment is predatory. Are you sure you
dont want to rephrase your technique? I am sure it can be done with a
different set of words..

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Rafael Anschau
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Re: virus: How to disinfect a host infected by a religious auto-toxic meme
« Reply #4 on: 2003-02-11 14:50:44 »

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Rafael Anschau
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Fw: Re: virus: How to disinfect a host infected by a religious auto-toxic meme
« Reply #5 on: 2003-02-11 15:18:41 »

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sun tzu
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Re: Fw: Re: virus: How to disinfect a host infected by a religious auto-toxic meme
« Reply #6 on: 2003-02-11 09:34:09 »

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Rafael Anschau
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Re: virus: How to disinfect a host infected by a religious auto-toxic meme
« Reply #7 on: 2003-02-11 16:01:34 »

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Kharin
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Re:virus: How to disinfect a host infected by a religious auto-toxic meme
« Reply #8 on: 2003-02-11 10:03:06 »

Quote:

"Come to think of it, I think there are 'clinics' under the control of fundamentalist christians which try to turn gays into heterosexuals - a form of brainwashing. So I guess it's possible if the subject has a strong meme wanting to get rid of a weaker meme. I know that I, personnaly, would love to get rid of my procrastinating tendencies."

The analogy is inaccurate. The US 'ex-gay' movement hit the buffers when its leader was spotted having a drink in a gay bar. Its UK equivalent disintegrated completely when its leader admitted that his faith had signally failed to rewrite his DNA and that as a consequence of the ridiculous movement he was saddled with a wife his beliefs forbade him to divorce. In such cases, we are much more likely to be speaking of genes than memes.

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Rafael Anschau
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Re: virus: How to disinfect a host infected by a religious auto-toxic meme
« Reply #9 on: 2003-02-11 17:09:13 »

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Kharin
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Re:virus: How to disinfect a host infected by a religious auto-toxic meme
« Reply #10 on: 2003-02-11 12:02:11 »

Quote:

" I think it is memetic. And I think we are dealing with an auto-toxic meme here. Why the heck would a gene adapt to search genes of the same sex ? It's evolutionary absurd, finding genes of the same sex means no reproduction and therefore the end of gene's survival.. There're simply no evolutionary explanations...(at least not one I can conceive). "

Which tells us more about the limits of evolutionary psychology explanations than anything else (See previous Pinker review, and in particular the idea of spandrels). Indeed, regarding the limits of conception, one might very well ask why a meme that places its host at risk of social ostracism and physical harm could be likely to survive - the answer being that is a memetic explanation was viable, it could not.

Leaving aside the fact that as I recall the genes for male homsexual predisposition was identified several years ago, homosexuality is far from being confined from homo sapiens, which is precisely what one would expect if memetic explanations had any currency. Bruce Bagemihl's Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity documented evidence for homosexual behaviour in pygmy chimps (Bonobo genitals having evolved specifically for lesbian rather than heterosexual interactions, and with homosexual activity accounting for 40%-50% of all sexual interactions), gorillas, antelope, buffalo, bats, dolphins, canada geese, elephants, hyenas and penguins. As I recall, that list was far from being exhaustive.

http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=45;action=display;threadid=21165

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Kharin
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Re:virus: How to disinfect a host infected by a religious auto-toxic meme
« Reply #11 on: 2003-02-11 13:56:32 »

Quote:

"Leaving aside the fact that as I recall the genes for male homosexual predisposition was identified several years ago"

Some background. The issue is more open ended that I recall (it would seem that there is no single gene, but the possibility of a combination of genetic factors remains quite strong):

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/living/DailyNews/gaygene990422.html

Most recently, there was this study:

http://www.stanford.edu/dept/news/relaged/961212behavgene.html

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Walter Watts
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Re: Fw: Re: virus: How to disinfect a host infected by a religious auto-toxic meme
« Reply #12 on: 2003-02-11 15:08:54 »

LOL in Tulsa!!!

Walter

Rafael Anschau wrote:

> Heey, I just had a vision. How about we starting an on-line clinic for disinfecting auto-toxic memes from
> those who seek help ? There such a huge market in the world... "So your ideas keep fighting in your head ?"
> You don't know exactly what to believe ? YOUUUURRRR PROLEMS ARE OVER!!!! Come over and let us
> help you! At Virus Disinfection TM we take care of everything. You'll get out like a new person. See,
> Mike here was a blind fallower of whatever church. After he met us, he learned not only how to think
> for himself, but also how to spot evil memes trying to take over his head!!! Pass by and let us show
> way how wonderful the world can be once you learn to choose your own memes.
>
> []'s
>
> love
> Rafael
>
> Forwarded by Rafael Anschau <anschau.ez@terra.com.br>
> ----------------------- Original Message -----------------------
> From: Rafael Anschau <anschau.ez@terra.com.br>
> To: virus@lucifer.com
> Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 11:50:44 -0800
> Subject: Re: virus: How to disinfect a host infected by a religious auto-toxic meme
> ----
>
> Then ask their permission first and ONLY then let them willingly submit to your administration.
> See, every problem has its own solution.
>
> love
> Rafael
>
> >
> > [Rafael]People become susceptible to meme infection when their
> > meme-imunological system weakens.This is, when they become weak. The
> > solution is not to kill the evil virus, but to strengthen people's
> > meme-imunological system. It's a technique. You may call it a sneaky
> > tactic, but then you also have to call your personal trainer motivational
> > skills a sneaky tactic, your doctor cheering you up a sneaky tactic and
> > whoever puts you up a sneaky tactic. (Even a surgeon give you anesthesia so
> > you won't feel pain a sneaky tactic).
> >
> >
> > [Mermaid]One approaches a personal trainer/doctor/surgeon and submits
> > willingly to their administrations. (Well, I WILL!..at least if I had a
> > personal trainer, that is..) This is entirely different from trying to
> > approach a theist/believer or just any person carrying auto toxic memes.
> >
> > [Mermaid]Waiting for someone's weak moment is predatory. Are you sure you
> > dont want to rephrase your technique? I am sure it can be done with a
> > different set of words..

> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
> > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
> >
> > ---
> > To unsubscribe from the Virus list go to <http://www.lucifer.com/cgi-bin/virus-l>
>
> --
> Rafael Anschau <anschau.ez@terra.com.br>
>
> ---
> To unsubscribe from the Virus list go to <http://www.lucifer.com/cgi-bin/virus-l>
>
> --------------------- Original Message Ends --------------------
>
> --
> Rafael Anschau <anschau.ez@terra.com.br>
>
> ---
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Walter Watts
Tulsa Network Solutions, Inc.

"No one gets to see the Wizard! Not nobody! Not no how!"

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Walter Watts
Tulsa Network Solutions, Inc.

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Walter Watts
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Re: virus: How to disinfect a host infected by a religious auto-toxic meme
« Reply #13 on: 2003-02-11 15:13:20 »

Rafael Anschau wrote:

> <snip>
> Why the heck would a gene adapt to search genes of the same sex ? It's evolutionary absurd, finding genes
> of the same sex means no reproduction and therefore the end of gene's survival.. There're simply no evolutionary
> explanations...(at least not one I can conceive).

Could it be the homosexual traits confer an advantage to the group?
And while homosexuals don't reproduce RELIABLY, they still in fact reproduce.

Walter

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Walter Watts
Tulsa Network Solutions, Inc.

"No one gets to see the Wizard! Not nobody! Not no how!"

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Walter Watts
Tulsa Network Solutions, Inc.

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JD
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Re: virus: How to disinfect a host infected by a religious auto-toxic meme
« Reply #14 on: 2003-02-11 18:34:54 »

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Watts" <wlwatts@cox.net>
To: <virus@lucifer.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 8:13 PM
Subject: Re: virus: How to disinfect a host infected by a religious
auto-toxic meme

>
> Rafael Anschau wrote:
>
> > <snip>
> > Why the heck would a gene adapt to search genes of the same sex ? It's
evolutionary absurd, finding genes
> > of the same sex means no reproduction and therefore the end of gene's
survival.. There're simply no evolutionary
> > explanations...(at least not one I can conceive).
>
> Could it be the homosexual traits confer an advantage to the group?
> And while homosexuals don't reproduce RELIABLY, they still in fact
reproduce.

I read a convincing account of homosexuality possibly being caused by a
Testosterone deficiency in the mother at the third month. This drenching is
what sets gender and if it is underpowered the result is homosexuality in
men. There is remarkable consistency for this in mammals.

If it is true that an environmental/medical factor causes it, this would
make homosexuality absolutely as natural as heterosexuality and end debates
about a genetic rationale for a "gay gene". Unfortunately it would reopen
the fundie claim that it is a curable disease. The fact is that it may be
preventable (assuming what I have just written is true) but completely
incurable.

My source for all this is Why Men Don't Iron (
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0006531008/ ). Also see
http://www.viewzone.com/homosexual.html .

Forgive me if this is all discredited or bunk. I am not up to speed on these
matters.

Regards

Limbic

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