David Lucifer
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Emergent reputation system in beta
« on: 2003-08-01 14:54:31 » |
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If you have a BBS account, please log in and try out this new reputation system: http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=54;action=foo
It is based on the premise that more weight should be given to the opinions of the members of a community that command the most respect. The innovative (and tricky) part is that this also holds true for opinions concerning who deserves respect.
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BillRoh
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Re:Emergent reputation system in beta
« Reply #1 on: 2003-08-04 15:42:00 » |
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It seems that when you enter the system, there is an obvious advantage to being the first people to sign up. Did you plan an setting it up so that all the names come up for opinion that are on the registered list? If not, as the list builds names, can one simply go back and add their opinions on those?
Thanks.
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David Lucifer
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Re: virus: Re:Emergent reputation system in beta
« Reply #2 on: 2003-08-04 16:50:37 » |
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----- Original Message -----
From: "BillRoh" <hidden@lucifer.com>
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 3:42 PM
>
> It seems that when you enter the system, there is an obvious advantage to being the first people to sign up. Did you plan an
setting it up so that all the names come up for opinion that are on the registered list? If not, as the list builds names, can one
simply go back and add their opinions on those?
There is no advantage to joining earlier rather than later[1]. The reputations are calculated
from scratch every time the ratings are updated. Anyone can change their ratings at any time.
David
[1] Unless you consider that those who have not joined yet have a zero reputation,
and zero influence and equity, at least until they do join.
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billroh@churchofvirus.com
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Re: virus: Re:Emergent reputation system in beta
« Reply #3 on: 2003-08-04 17:52:00 » |
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I was considering [1] already. I was also considering what happens when
one is near the beginning of sign up. People that log on later will not
be noticed by the earlier people - who were there for all the voting -
selecting. For instance: As I logged on later than most, most have not
reviewed me. Out of the 26 people on the list, I was the last to sign up
so even though I have a rating, no more than one or two people have been
able to select their choices for me in the last 1/2 hour. How can the
ratings of people that show up later possibly be as viable as those that
signed up early and have 26 people voting on them? The only way would be
for those that sign up in the beginning to continuously check for new
names to rate.
Being first to sign up means that most likely you are common here and
catch the mail frequently. Then because you were early you have many
people rating you, instead of just a few that see your name later and go
in for the purpose of rating you. I assume that you think this is not an
issue because you assume that people will continually check in for those
people they have missed due to signing up later. I'm not confident of
that myself.
This would be solved if everyone signed up together, then a closing date
was announced to start the ratings . This would force everyone to rate
just about everyone. Later entries would still be an issue, but your
first large batch would be a good sampling and since people can go in
and change the ratings later, the late additions will over time catch up.
David McFadzean wrote:
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "BillRoh" <hidden@lucifer.com>
>Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 3:42 PM
>
>
>
>>It seems that when you enter the system, there is an obvious advantage to being the first people to sign up. Did you plan an
>>
>>
>setting it up so that all the names come up for opinion that are on the registered list? If not, as the list builds names, can one
>simply go back and add their opinions on those?
>
>There is no advantage to joining earlier rather than later[1]. The reputations are calculated
>from scratch every time the ratings are updated. Anyone can change their ratings at any time.
>
>David
>
>[1] Unless you consider that those who have not joined yet have a zero reputation,
>and zero influence and equity, at least until they do join.
>
>---
>To unsubscribe from the Virus list go to <http://www.lucifer.com/cgi-bin/virus-l>
>
>
>
--
Reason - Vision - Empathy
Tools for a healthy mind
Bill Roh
attached: index.html
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ElvenSage
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Think for yourself, question authority.
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Re:Emergent reputation system in beta
« Reply #4 on: 2003-08-04 18:01:50 » |
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I check every day for new people to rate. Unfortunatly a lot of the time it just allows me to know how I've been rated by "so-and-so." Heh, see, I know how you rated me. Cuz my score went down or up.  Although, I'm not basing my rating off of how others rate me, but it is something I beleive I should keep in mind.
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Safe from the pain and truth and choice and other poison devils
See.. they don't give a fuck about you, like i do.
Just stay with me, safe and ignorant,
Go back to sleep
Go Back to sleep
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BillRoh
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Re:Emergent reputation system in beta
« Reply #5 on: 2003-08-04 19:08:27 » |
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You're a good guy Elven, you deserve a better rating and to help I have reduced everyone save Jonathan (I wanna post his pics on the web for the big bucks) to 1s. May Elven become the new COV ICON!
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David Lucifer
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Re: virus: Re:Emergent reputation system in beta
« Reply #6 on: 2003-08-04 20:02:34 » |
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> I was considering [1] already. I was also considering what happens when
> one is near the beginning of sign up. People that log on later will not
> be noticed by the earlier people - who were there for all the voting -
> selecting. For instance: As I logged on later than most, most have not
> reviewed me. Out of the 26 people on the list, I was the last to sign up
> so even though I have a rating, no more than one or two people have been
> able to select their choices for me in the last 1/2 hour. How can the
> ratings of people that show up later possibly be as viable as those that
> signed up early and have 26 people voting on them? The only way would be
> for those that sign up in the beginning to continuously check for new
> names to rate.
It is true that you can't be voted up until people rate you, but you
can't be voted down either, it works both ways. It seems most people
are checking back fairly often, I looked at the size of the db tables
and there were 531 ratings out of a possible 676, over 78%
I don't think it will change things but that is an empirical question
worth investigating. Since we are still in beta, I will reset all the
ratings once we reach 35 members and we can start over.
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David Lucifer
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Re: virus: Re:Emergent reputation system in beta
« Reply #7 on: 2003-08-07 10:53:09 » |
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The first stage of the beta is nearing completion. Once we have 35 members
signed up I will reset all the ratings. At this point it would be convenient
to try a different number of possible ratings. I have personally found it
somewhat difficult to have only three positive categories. Perhaps 11 ratings
overall would be better, that is, from 0-10 with 5 positive categories and
5 negative categories. Any thoughts from the users so far?
David
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Kharin
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In heaven all the interesting people are missing.
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Re:Emergent reputation system in beta
« Reply #8 on: 2003-08-07 13:42:16 » |
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Quote:| "At this point it would be convenient to try a different number of possible ratings. Any thoughts from the users so far?" |
One point to consider is that a natural consequence of using Likert scale style systems is that users tend to naturally gravitate towards the centre of the scale in their answers, so I might be tempted to increase the scale to eight so that there was no single mid-point in the scale.
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billroh@churchofvirus.com
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Re: virus: Re:Emergent reputation system in beta
« Reply #9 on: 2003-08-07 13:46:35 » |
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What you are saying makes sense, but what kind of rating would you have
for people you do not know or have not read?
Kharin wrote:
>"At this point it would be convenient to try a different number of possible ratings. Any thoughts from the users so far?"
>
>One point to consider is that a natural consequence of using Likert scale style systems is that users tend to naturally gravitate towards the centre of the scale in their answers, so I might be tempted to increase the scale to eight so that there was no single mid-point in the scale.
>
>----
>This message was posted by Kharin to the Virus 2003 board on Church of Virus BBS.
><http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=54;action=display;threadid=28928>
>---
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>
>
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Tools for a healthy mind
Bill Roh
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Kharin
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Re:Emergent reputation system in beta
« Reply #10 on: 2003-08-07 14:32:26 » |
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Quote:| "What you are saying makes sense, but what kind of rating would you have for people you do not know or have not read?" |
I think that is a concern, but I rather suspect that that applies to some extent at present as well. That is, one might use a neutral rating as being indicative of someone you do know and have read, or you might use it to indicate a lack of knowledge upon which to make a judgement in the manner you have described. From the point of view of the rankings, no difference can be discerned. Of course, you do have the option of simply not ranking someone you don't know.
In cases of nothaving read that person you can, of course, access profiles from the reputations page and from there to their last set of posts.
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David Lucifer
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Re:Emergent reputation system in beta
« Reply #11 on: 2003-08-07 14:55:24 » |
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Quote from: Kharin on 2003-08-07 14:32:26
From the point of view of the rankings, no difference can be discerned. Of course, you do have the option of simply not ranking someone you don't know. |
The algorithm was designed so that those two cases (neutral and no opinion) would be equivalent. The neutral rating is necessary because it isn't practical to make everyone give everyone else a rating at all times. When a rating is missing from the data the system assumes it is either neutral or no opinion and does not distinguish between the two.
Perhaps later I can justify this design decision on information theoretical grounds in addition to practical reasons.
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