From: ben (ben@machinegod.org)
Date: Tue Apr 23 2002 - 21:10:53 MDT
[Hermit 1] If I had any significant reservations I would have written
before. Seeing as I am writting, I do have a suggestion. Ask why the
ownership of the quotations are important and consider the implications of
this,
[ben 2] The main item that strikes me, if the quotes are accurate, is that
people could knowingly found a nation on such admittedly shaky ground. I can
understanding realizing that one is in the wrong. What I can't understand is
realizing that and then continuing to do the same thing, and being succesful
in convincing a large portion of an educated modern world that you are in
fact in the right.
[Hermit 1] particularly that potential problem of "arguing from authority" -
especially where the authorities are contradictory (including
self-contradictory).
[ben 2] Granted. To be honest, I would have found it more believeable if the
wuotes were attributed to random Joe Israeli on the street, and therefore
more immediately convincing. However, it certainly sounds more impressive I
suppose to have the founder of a movement denigrate it.
[Hermit 1] Just because a particular quotation from a particular person at a
particular time happens to match your preconceptions does not imply that
your preconceptions are correct (or incorrect). It is more important to look
at the fundamentals. And there, I would suggest, it comes down to
fundamentals. Is might right - as Lex Talionis would have it (and the US and
Israel seem to exemplify)? Or is International Law (Geneva Convention etc) ,
or something else more important.
[ben 2] I will almost (no exception currently comes to mind) vote for the
"Less People Dying" option if there is one. Also, in most instances the two
masquerade as eachother. Why does the US have veto power in the UN? Aren't
international laws enforced by armed soldiers, just like martial law?
"International Law" is often a more appetizing way of saying "imposing our
values elsewhere" isn't it?
-ben
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